"LJ909" (lj909)
04/13/2017 at 18:32 • Filed to: None
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"LJ909" (lj909)
04/13/2017 at 18:32 • Filed to: None | 1
| 25 |
I’m pretty sure we were all impressed with the 18' Navigator. I know I was. I was even more surprised when they came out saying that its going to potentially have 450 hp from its Ecoboost V6. That’s crazy. But it got me thinking. Could it be a nail in the coffin for the Mustang’s 5.0?
If some of you hadn’t already known, Ford’s goal has been to downsize engines to increase efficiency while maintaining horsepower at similar if not more levels. That’s where the Ecoboost engines come in. And for 2018 the Mustang does away with the V6 for the Ecoboost 4 and the 5.0 Coyote. Both see no power increases for 18', only an increase in torque, though they haven’t said by how much. Where am I going with this? This Ecoboost could put the V8 in trouble.
The Navigator is already going to be 15 hp up on the 5.0 and not only be smaller but more efficient in doing so. Someone is probably going to say “ well Ford still has the 5.2" but that’s only for Shelby duty. This could go a few ways though: Either I’m completely wrong and Ford updates the 5.0 with more power in 2019, Ford does proper by Lincoln by having this 450 hp 3.5 exclusive to Lincoln, or Ford is slowly phasing out all other engines in favor of a line of powerful Ecoboost engines in all models. What do you guys think?
OpposResidentLexusGuy - USE20, XF20, XU30 and Press Cars
> LJ909
04/13/2017 at 18:38 |
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MORE LIKE 5.SLOW IMO. Am I right?? But really, It’s getting replaced.
Gerry197
> LJ909
04/13/2017 at 18:42 |
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Not likely, the V8 is integral with the Mustang’s Character. Which is why 75% of the international orders were all 5.0 V8s, especially in Europe.
Even with fullsize trucks, where Ford buyers have gone all in for both Ecoboost motors, they still have a 5.0L in there slotted below the 3.5 but above the 2.7.
I can see one day the F150 losing the V8 and instead focusing on the Ecoboost and Diesel, but the Mustang, no way.
K-Roll-PorscheTamer
> LJ909
04/13/2017 at 18:43 |
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The Coyote isn’t dead yet. There’s no 5.8 Coyote for the Mustang, and the 5.0 is getting combined PI/DI (port/direct injection) for 2018 with a torque increase, same with the EB; though the official numbers haven’t been released yet. The numbers should be close to what the current Camaro SS puts out, 450hp if memory serves me right.
There’s still a market for the V8 and if you look at the 2015 Mustang sales #s, the V8 is still going strong so don’t worry for the time being. We’ll still have V8s going into the 2020s. The next gen may be getting a hybrid model, but we will see an Ecoboost V6 in the Mustang eventually.
Jayhawk Jake
> LJ909
04/13/2017 at 18:49 |
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In the Mustang? No. In everything else? Probably.
The Mustang is probably safe until the next generation. But the 5.0 V8 in anything not a Mustang is probably going away if it hasn’t already.
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LJ909
> Gerry197
04/13/2017 at 18:51 |
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I thought the same thing too but you never know. The discontinuation of the V6 surprised us. And their Ecoboost engines are putting out some serious numbers. The GT seems to prove that it can hold its own on and off the track. Its just seems like its a accumulation of things.
I thought I had read somewhere though that the 5.0 was the big seller in Europe but the Ecoboost was? Maybe Im wrong. But even then though, Ford seems to put pushing it on people. Dealers largely stock Ecoboost F-150's.
dogisbadob
> LJ909
04/13/2017 at 18:51 |
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The V8 is here to stay.
Remember what happened the last two times Ford tried to take away the V8 Mustang? :p
Doge_Supreme drives a BRZ
> Jayhawk Jake
04/13/2017 at 18:53 |
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Agreed. The Mustang will still sell with the V8 because the market is there, and they would loose sales if they killed off the V8 completely. They will probably revise it to keep it competitive, but it’s unlikely that it’s going away.
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LJ909
> Jayhawk Jake
04/13/2017 at 18:53 |
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That’s my thinking. The only other thing you can get the 5.0 in is the F-150. I really wish they would take the Mustangs platform, stretch it, make a sport sedan and give it to Lincoln with the 5.0 option. Chrysler proves there’s a market for a V8 rwd American luxury sedan.
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Gerry197
> LJ909
04/13/2017 at 19:00 |
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In Europe, the 5.0 has exceeded their estimations, especially with taxes there are biased against larger motors. I know the UK for example it has far exceeded their expectations with V8 sales over Ecoboost.
I myself drive an F150 with a 2.7L, having owned only V8s in the past. It’s been downright a revelation for me, 0-60 in less than 6 seconds, 25 mpg on long commutes, I’m a believer. However, not sure about a Mustang.
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LJ909
> K-Roll-PorscheTamer
04/13/2017 at 19:01 |
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Yea the 5.8 was a type. I meant 5.0. But I only read that the Ecoboost and 5.o are getting more torque numbers. And the increase in torque in the turbo 4 is due to a transient overboost function, which lifts outputs on every gear change. I hadn’t seen anything about pi/di for the 5.0.
LongbowMkII
> LJ909
04/13/2017 at 19:07 |
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The mod motor will be the last clean sheet V8 for Ford. They may toss a bone for a while, but I’d be surprised if any 2025 mustang had an available V8.
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LongbowMkII
> K-Roll-PorscheTamer
04/13/2017 at 19:07 |
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The 2020s are just 2 model years away.
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Jayhawk Jake
> LJ909
04/13/2017 at 19:14 |
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The 300 doesn’t sell that well, nor does the CTS. I don’t think there’s a big market for that because I don’t think the mass market cares about drive wheels.
I’m not convinced a stretched Mustang would make a good car. The Mustang is already big at only 10" shorter than a 300
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Jayhawk Jake
> LJ909
04/13/2017 at 19:15 |
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I don’t think the discontinuing of the V6 in the Mustang surprised anyone. It was destined to happen: the V6 was only offered in base trim with a handful of options, it seemed pretty obvious Ford positioned the EB as the real base model.
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LJ909
> Jayhawk Jake
04/13/2017 at 19:23 |
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Oh people are aware. I think its one of the reasons that the 300 sales. And the 300 does sell pretty good for being as old as it is. Last year Chrysler sold a little over 54 thousand of them compared to the CTS 16 thousand. And so far through March of this year theres been a little over 15 thousand 300's sold. Compare that with 2486 for the CTS. Dismal. So the market is there.
If Ford tried hard enough though they could make it work. If they can squeeze 450 horses out of a turbo V6 they can make a stretched Mustang work as a sports sedan.
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Jayhawk Jake
> Gerry197
04/13/2017 at 19:24 |
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If the V6 EB drives the way I imagine it does I think it fits the Mustang really well for the customer looking for a “sports car”. A TTV6 Mustang is essentially an M2 competitor.
The problem will always be the questionable perception that A MUSTANG NEEDS A V8 GRRR. If you view the Mustang as a car rather than “a Mustang” a smaller, lighter, torquier engine makes for a great car.
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Jayhawk Jake
> LongbowMkII
04/13/2017 at 19:34 |
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Maybe.
2025 might be a bit soon for no V8, just depends on the product cycle. Ford seems to be going quicker for generational changes (2015 was 6G, 2020 is supposed to be 7G), so if 2025 is year 1 of the 8th gen Mustang we could see some big changes from today.
I do sort of wonder if Ford will continue a supercar program after the GT. If they do, I could see a scenario where they develop a small TTV8 like McLaren and Ferrari have with a high end Mustang carrying it.
I doubt it, but it’s fun to think about.
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LongbowMkII
> Jayhawk Jake
04/13/2017 at 19:35 |
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2025 isn’t that far away is it?
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Jayhawk Jake
> LongbowMkII
04/13/2017 at 19:38 |
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Not really, if we’re talking 2025 MY. You would expect to see the 2025 MY cars introduced in Q3 2024. Ford has implied the 2020 MY Mustang will be new with hybrid options, so 2025 MY would be about right for another new generation unless the 2020 MY platform is stretched out more like the S197 was.
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Gerry197
> Jayhawk Jake
04/13/2017 at 20:32 |
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But it’s a “Mustang”, not another sports car. There is an expectation that name comes with, it’s a Muscle Car, which means V8. You can meet or exceed performance with a V6TT for sure, the Raptor proves it. But the V8 is part of the Mustang soul if you will. You can’t separate the two.
Even the British are buying the majority of Mustangs with V8s. They are a car culture that understands smaller displacement motors, but even they understand what makes it a Mustang.
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Jayhawk Jake
> Gerry197
04/13/2017 at 20:58 |
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You can separate the too, it’s just hard to get people to put aside their old school attitude
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Gerry197
> Jayhawk Jake
04/13/2017 at 21:09 |
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Is it old school? Or just cool? Again, its about the character of a Muscle car. You can do it with a V6, but in the case of a Muscle Car, why would you?
If you want a traditional “balanced” sports car, you can buy any number of them out there. You buy a Mustang, Camaro and Challenger for a different reason.
Even Rory Reid of Top Gear complained he thought the new Mustang is too refined, might as well just get a BMW or Audi. He said he didn’t want a Mustang his parents would buy.
awmaster10
> LJ909
04/13/2017 at 23:14 |
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Ford should just make a small displacement v8 ecoboost and make that and the base turbo 4 the only engine options. It would still have the v8 pony car buyers want and would have crazy output finally rivaling the LT motor.
Sampsonite24-Earth's Least Likeliest Hero
> LJ909
04/25/2017 at 14:22 |
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its a pony car, it will always have a V8
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Sampsonite24-Earth's Least Likeliest Hero
> Jayhawk Jake
04/25/2017 at 14:23 |
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you can still get it in the F150 for now